How inclusive is the design industry? An interview with Squarespace Designer, Mona Mousa

image credits: Tiffany Lynn

You can watch the full live interview here.

Mona Mousa | Squarespace Designer and Founder of Lifestyle Magazine Joy&Co

kwjoy.co - WEBSITE BUILT WITH ELISE DESIGN KIT

Mona, you’re a talented designer and a driven activist within the creative community. How did you get started and how does your identity shape the design work that you do?

I had always been interested in design. When I was 16, my dad gave me an option to either do driving lessons, or go to an art summer school, so I chose the latter, and funny enough, I never got my driving license until I was 18. I’ve always been into arts, I’ve always been drawing, so when it was time for me to choose what I wanted to do, I chose design.

I started as an intern in an advertising agency, but I soon realized it was not for me. One time, while talking to a client, I understood that my design skills did not fit their needs. I told the client, in front of my manager, that “maybe you need to find another agency that fits your authentic style”. That’s when my manager told me I should think about being a freelancer. And that’s what I did. If I can’t offer my clients what they want, if I can’t approach their needs with authenticity, I’m not going to land them just because. So I left the advertising agency, and became a freelancer, as a part-time job.

Images by Gary Evans Photography

After that, I worked for a food magazine. I was responsible for their website (which was on Squarespace) and their blog, and made sure it was styled properly. And, by the way, I don’t think people realize the power of blog elements when it comes to styling and using headlines. The first time I discovered that you can restyle the italics and the bolds on Squarespace was through Elise Design Kit, and I fell in love with it. Now I can truly bring out my style through design. Your brand identity, the way you show up digitally, on your website, or on your Instagram, is an intrinsic reflection of who you are. That’s what I loved most about using your design kit -  that I could customize it and make it completely fit my style.

Absolutely! It’s great to see how our clients use a certain element, stylize it based on their needs and make it unique. We love that! It’s great to know that our products help you optimize your process, as a designer or as a creator.

Exactly! And with that in mind, I want to ask everybody who is getting ready to launch their website - have you thought about your brand identity? Have you chosen a color palette for your site? Or are you figuring it out on the go? It took me 2 months to perfect and choose mine, and I do this for a living. There are steps to take before you get to your website, so that when you create your website - it does reflect you. It’s great to have Squaremuse and Design Kits, but first ask yourself: what is my brand identity and how will I implement that into a ready-to-use template?

Image by Gary Evans Photography

And again, your branding is not only your logo, it’s also the words you use or the images you curate (because you don’t use all your images, as a photographer - you only choose to showcase the images of the work you want to get). This brings me to images and representations. Ever since BLM happened, these discussions have transgressed in niched communities and industries. How do YOU, as a Black woman, feel in the web industry and in the creative industry?

For me, it is shocking and it is not acceptable that the first statement I hear from BIPOC people is about how my website shows diverse people - on every page there is at least one Black person. Whereas on every other website you seem to have only white people represented.

I went on Unsplash and searched for “pretty woman” and it took me 32 images before I got to a Black woman, not brown - specifically Black. Then I just searched for “woman” - there were 21 photos before a Black woman showed up. If you google “happy Black woman” - you will get women with lighter skin, perfect curls, the traditionally attractive Black women. If you search “angry Black woman” - you will get darker skin Black women. This is a notorious aspect of racism that is fluid on the web! So I made sure that my website is diverse. The only reason why I stayed away from the lifestyle magazine blog world is because I am not a blond white woman. As much as I love The Every Girl, Wit and Delight, Advice from a 30 something, Advice from a 20 something - these blogs are beautiful, but I don’t look like their founders. And that’s ok, but I needed to carve out space for other lifestyle bloggers and designers that look like me.

The design world is slow to catch up, and I think it’s because everyone has their own creative process, and the creative process doesn’t have an intersectional lens on it. If you look at websites - you’ll notice the same stock photos are used pretty straight across the board. For the magazine, we have a folder where we upload photos, and there are so many diverse photos and I’m so proud of that - if you go to Joy&Co you’ll notice that.

Image by Mona Mousa

Our understanding of style comes from our upbringing, based on where we grew up as kids, it comes from our parents, grandparents and so forth. And even when you go to Pinterest - there are general “rules” on the platform, of what is considered beautiful or stylish and what not. But who creates these rules and values of aesthetics? Why are certain visuals more popular? Why do certain visuals keep being reproduced, without an intentional understanding of those aesthetics?

It’s really bittersweet. It’s good that we’re moving into a direction where you can see a bunch of sites and blogs that are more diverse, and let’s be honest: it took more Black lives dying for people to start paying attention.

I’m happy we’re here, but now it opens other conversations. I know Squaremuse has an audience of mainly photographers, and the question is: how are photographers editing? Do they know how to edit photos with people that have my skin color? I know a fantastic photographer, named Tiffany Lynn - I trust her to edit my photos, I know that I’m not going to look washed out, I know that I’m not going to look like something other than I am, she’s not going to lighten or darken me, she’s going to respect my authenticity and the photos will turn out fantastic. How many of you know how to edit folks that are diverse to add to your portfolio? What is the diversity lens you’re approaching your portfolio with?

In your opinion, how does someone who wants to diversify their portfolios, can do it in a way that it doesn’t become tokenistic? Let’s say a photographer wants to create a styled shoot and invite a BIPOC person to model, so they can add to their portfolio. How does one do it in such a way, that it comes from a good place and it doesn’t come off as rude or disrespectful?

There are 2 ways to approach it. The first way is how I’ve been approached by Tiffany, and it came from a place of kindness, care, and respect. She messaged me and said “Hey, I want to photograph the Black Lives Matter march in town, how do I do it safely and respectfully?” We had a long conversation about it, we talked about editing photos, specifically how to edit a march with mainly Black folks. She sent me the photos after so I could review them. 

Afterwards, with Covid and everything, she reached out and said “We want to help Black businesses and offer them free photography and branding for them to use. Would you model for us?” Because I had a relationship with her, I didn’t feel tokenized, I felt like she was really listening, that she knew that there is a need, and she was doing anything she can to help. Tiffany knows me, we’ve built a relationship, so when she came to me and said “let’s do these photos”, of course I agreed.

Images by Tiffany Lynn

If you don’t have Black or Brown friends, that’s ok as well. Put a callout on Facebook or Instagram and just be honest, say “Hey, I need to do better with my social circle. I don’t look outside of my own community, however, I know the importance of diversifying my portfolio so I can be a SAFER space or a resource for BIPOC folks, when they’re looking for designers or photographers. I know I need to be better, I would like to do this, who would be open to offer me their time?” Give them a gift-card to a nice dinner place, or pay them for their time. Because they are really giving you more than you’re giving them. If a random white photographer had put up on Facebook that they were looking for Black models, I wouldn’t contact them. I wouldn’t spend my time with a stranger that I don’t feel is trying to invest in me, but rather just in their portfolio. Offer compensation for the emotional labor. IT IS emotional labor for a Black person to get behind the lens of a white person’s camera. As a queer person, it is emotional labor to get behind the lens of a person who usually shoots Cis-heteronormative couples. 

That’s because you have to prep yourself emotionally, to be vulnerable with your identity that you know is not the status quo. You don’t know how the person will react, you don’t know how they will actually embrace your vulnerability of who you really are, and how they will show that through imagery.

And it’s not only about vulnerability. What if you have a couple approach you and you think it’s just a man and a woman, but you actually have a male presenting non-binary person and a more masculine presenting feminine person. Just because they are a man and a woman to you doesn’t mean they want to be posed the way you usually pose your Cis-het couples. And the same goes with Black people, there are so many nuances to our body, skin, and how we navigate and step out into the world. 

Photography is such a powerful tool to showcase different life stories and experiences, and as you said -  our bodies are so different, just because you are a biological woman doesn’t mean that you cannot express yourself in a more masculine way or the other way around. Photography can play a huge role in expanding what we know of gender expression and gender roles. We have an image of what a heteronormative couple is, but some couples are not playing by those roles, for some the position of power is shifted and they want to show it that way through photos. 

Image by Gary Evans Photography

Share more of what you’re currently doing, and how that plays into your vision of helping the community while staying true to your values. 

Joy&Co is a lifestyle magazine, and we just rolled out an Instagram blog about healing and anxiety, called Harversting Seasalt. We are also rolling out a creative agency with 3 pillars of how we do services: authenticity, innovation, and approachability. The agency is called Joy Creative Lab, we’re going to offer services like brand strategy, graphic design, web design, creative copy, etc. - like a 360 degrees look at your business presence, digitally. I’m actually working on the website for Joy Creative Lab right now, and I’m using Squaremuse Porto Design Kit.

It was really hard for me, as a designer, to buy a design kit. It was emotionally draining, I was embarrassed to tell people that I was using a design kit because I thought it would tarnish my design name or reputation. And it didn’t! Look at Joy&Co website - people are in love with it! 

Absolutely, and it’s been a blast working with you! We love and want to collaborate with more creatives like yourself, who reach more potential clients and you get to help them out. This is a great way to show that you don’t have to compete for clients, and you don’t even have to take on every client. We believe in collaborations that are meant to help each other grow, not just because you want to earn a buck that you don’t want to share with anyone else. 

And talking about dollars, I’ve always had a hard time with how much web design costs, how expensive it actually is to get a website. If your clients are more diverse, if you’re reaching into a Black community, the socio-economic aspect is very real, and there are people who are not going to be able to afford $3000 for a website. Up until last year, I was charging $750 for a website, because I had a hard time with how inaccessible the design prices were. And yes, I needed to value my time and efforts and I raised the price to $1500 for a website, and even then I felt bad because a lot of people said that they couldn’t do it. That’s why ready-made design kits and custom elements make it so much more accessible. 

Images by Gary Evans Photography

To wrap it up, any parting notes for those who are struggling with design? Any advice for BIPOC folks who are in the design industry and want to gain confidence? For someone who is starting out - what are the best ways to move further, especially now?

1. Get a mentor. When you’re starting out, the industry can be really intimidating. When you go to Behance, the Creative Market, Pinterest, or Etsy, these can be such intimidating platforms with lots of talented folks. A mentor will help you to stay grounded.

2. Your design style will change over the years and that’s ok. You will hate all of your work at the beginning, keep doing it, don’t trash it, keep pushing through, you need those earlier design pieces to shape your path. 

3. Put your ego aside. Not everybody knows the same words we do, as designers. I have a client who is not in design, he is a sports and fitness coach. He wanted a very specific design, he knew what he wanted but he didn’t know how to communicate it creatively. The time and patience we intentionally put into the process of creating his logo, made such a big deal and it paid off, he is now very happy. And it only happened because I put my ego aside. You don’t get to charge $700/h or similar crazy rates if you are not patient and you are not willing to listen to your client. You don’t get to price yourself above the value of authenticity you show up with to people.

4. Learn. Learn editing, don’t just go to a Black photographer and ask for their presets. Go to stock photography, look up Black people, pull those photos, edit them, experiment. Ask someone you know if you can use their photos to edit, explain why, give them compensation, be transparent. 

5. Really start to question yourself why you are doing this, why you are stepping out into being more diverse, what is your intention. Think, not about what you hope to gain, but what you hope to give. There are ways that you can do this in a healthy, respectful, and authentic way. If you are talking about BLM as a political statement, but then stop talking about it, and a year later and your whole calendar is booked with white couple weddings, then what’s the point? Keep your promises. Do what you said you were going to do.

There are a lot of businesses who are constantly looking for what they can do to be more inclusive, so it’s a constant and continuous process because this is not relevant just this month. Thank you so much for your time, Mona!

Creatively yours,

Squaremuse Team